Interview with The Financial Times Paul Wolfowitz, June 27, 2007  FT: Thank you very much indeed for agreeing to do this interview. We greatly appreciate that. It’s very decent of you. We’re obviously preparing a feature looking at the transition at the Bank and seeking to identify what were the causes of the many problems and difficulties that you faced during your time as Bank President, and what you feel you were able to achieve there. I wonder if you could give us your analysis of this. PW: Well, you say many problems and difficulties. I just noticed this year’s end of year results. We’re reaching record levels of IDA higher than we’ve ever had before. We had a record on Africa last year; we’re now up 20% in Africa, year on year. This is in spite of what people say is an excessive—I would strongly disagree with the excessive adjective—focus on governance and improving governance, so I feel very good about that. And by the way, quite a bit of it has been done in innovative ways through the rapid response policy for post-conflict countries like Liberia and Congo, and through a good deal of innovative regional programs like the East Africa information technology backbone. So frankly, I think it’s kind of bogus when people talk about management problems and leadership problems. But anyway, we are where we are and I certainly believe strongly in the mission. I think the kind of work that IDA does in Africa is extremely important. I hope to see it well funded by the big donors, including the Europeans and the United States. I’ve said this many, many times; I said this in a session today with Bank staff where we showed this remarkable movie that Ambassador Andrew Young had produced called Rwanda Rising, that I came here very conscious of the needs of Africa, but I leave here with a great deal of hope about the promise of Africa, and I hope in one way or another I can continue working on that. FT: Mr. Wolfowitz, some people we spoke to in the course of researching this feature highlight what they say was your disinclination to follow, if you like, rules and processes within the Bank as a reason why perhaps a lot of your initiatives, such as the anti-corruption drive, stirred up more opposition than they might have done. Do you recognize that, or do you feel that that’s a misrepresentation? PW: I think it’s a complete misrepresentation. Look, there were no rules and procedures for what happens when a country like Chad breaks an agreement with the Bank, and I think what surprised some people is that we actually took some action, when I guess past practice led people to think that we wouldn’t do anything. But we took some action and the end result was to get that agreement amended but basically back on track. When we had a governance problem in Ethiopia because of political controversy surrounding the elections in 2005, we waited until we could get the very innovative Protection of Basic Services program in place that frankly led the way for a number of other donors, including your own country, the UK, to be able to follow on in a way that was politically neutral, which is important for everybody. You know, if you were to listen to some of my critics, you would think that everything stopped here while we focused on controversies about corruption but—I just told you the numbers—really put paid to that accusation. FT: Yes, yes. Do you, looking back, think that you could have brought the Board on board, involved the Board more deeply in your deliberations, in your thinking, and that your relations with the Board might have been less rocky, or do you think that that again is something that’s unfair? PW: I think it’s very unfair. I spent hours more with the Board than my predecessor did. I think that would be generally acknowledged. I’m not trying to criticize Jim Wolfensohn, I’m just saying I think that’s… Look, people had their agendas. You as a reporter probably know more about what they were than I do. But I spent a great deal of time with the Board, I listened to the Board, I changed a lot of things in response to Board comments. I didn’t always do what they wanted and they didn’t always do what I wanted. But, you know, we had some difficult issues over HIPC for Congo Brazzaville. I think, you know, it was a… Both sides stated their positions. I think we came up with a middle ground that achieved a good deal of assent. And I note with some interest that the new French government has decided maybe there is a problem with the millions of dollars of real estate that that government has purchased in Paris. We worked hard on the governance and anti-corruption exercise. We did a consultation which one Board member said, "Only the World Bank could have done this." We did it under my leadership. I think we consulted more than 3,000 individuals, 40 countries. I think we came up with something that really takes this whole strategy to a higher level. And did everyone agree? No. We had some people on the Board who practically wanted to rule out the Bank dealing with non-government organizations, and of course other Board members who felt that working with non-governmental organizations was essential to advancing the demand side of governance. And we came out with, again, a middle ground that I think is a good place for this institution to be. So… I feel very good. I think I got an awful… We got an awful lot done here. That change in pronoun is important. This is a team sport, we did it together. I’m very proud of what’s been accomplished, and I’m looking forward to my next career. FT: Indeed. FT: [Unclear] Board level at a senior management level, similar concerns were expressed. That regional VPs have at times felt uninformed about actions that were being taken by your office in their regions. PW: Give me a specific example. Don’t give me this sort of vague thing, okay? FT: Sure. I mean, I think there were probably a number of examples, but one would be the Middle East region, where obviously there were issues perhaps early on in your tenure in relation to Iraq, West Bank/Gaza, where I would imagine there were perhaps differences as we understand it between… PW: Excuse me, are you reporting fact or are you telling me what you imagine? I know of no significant differences on West Bank/Gaza. The issue that came to me in June of 2005 came from your Minister of Development, Mr. Hilary Benn, who complained about the very slow pace of Bank disbursement of the Multi-Donor Trust Fund in Iraq. Frankly, I have some sympathy for the Bank’s slowness, but I did my best to try to get us on pace there. But, you know, people love to make an issue out of Iraq just because it’s a four-letter word, I guess. But the fact is, it has not been a major subject of either attention or controversy. Lebanon, on the other hand, where the Bank has played a major role—and when I was in Paris for the Donors Conference in February, I was publicly and rather warmly and personally praised by no less than the President of France for the truly impressive leadership that our team, with my full support, had given to Lebanon. And I have to tell you that among the significant number of Bank staff who have come to me in the last month and said they’re sorry I’m leaving, it’s very striking how many Lebanese are saying thank you for what you did for Lebanon. FT: Mr. Wolfowitz, you… PW: This is going to have to be the last question, I’m sorry. FT: May we have two last questions? Will that be okay? PW: Well, let’s try. But they have to be short. FT: Both of course very quickly. In a couple of your remarks recently, you acknowledged that you felt that perhaps you had relied too long in your tenure on advisors that you brought in with you at the start. Is that something that you, looking back, you wish you’d done slightly differently? PW: I don’t think it would have made a major difference to this result. I think there were other forces at work. FT: Such as? PW: You know them. I said what I’ll say. FT: Sure. And would just finally then… What is it that you would like us to remember from your tenure as Bank President? PW: Well, it’s what I said earlier today to the audience after the Rwanda Rising film, which is I really believe that Africa could be at a turning point and that turning point is defined by the commitment of so many Africans in leadership positions and ordinary citizens to take responsibility for their own future. It’s reflected in the distinctly improved economic performance of some 17 African countries with about a third of the population. It’s reflected in the new peace and stability that’s enjoyed by some of the shattered countries like Liberia and DRC and Burundi. And it’s a real chance to bring these 600 million people onto the development path that has benefited so many poor people in East Asia and South Asia and, admittedly with a somewhat more mixed record, but still in Latin America. It comes from empowering people, not empowering governments, but at the same time I would say to those on the other side of the spectrum who say, well, we don’t need development assistance because the private sector does everything, I would also remind them that the successful developing countries like Korea and China have had very impressive levels of public investment, especially in education and infrastructure. I think we made a good start on the Africa agenda. I am delighted by everything I’ve heard Mr. Zoellick say about his commitment to that agenda and his understanding that part of that agenda—and the Africans themselves demand it and it’s a central point in the Blair Commission on Africa—that development in Africa rests on a foundation of good governance. I’m going to have to go, I’m sorry. FT: [Have you decided] what you’ll do next? PW: Exploring a lot of possibilities. I’ll be a Visiting Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and doing some writing. But most importantly for me is exploring some ways to help advance development in Africa, both through the private sector and through foundation work. We’ll see what emerges, but I have really… You know, 20 years ago I was the American ambassador to Indonesia and I have to freely acknowledge, because it’s pretty much an open secret, that I fell in love with that country and I have continued it, and actually I wouldn’t mind working on some countries like Indonesia and Turkey that I’ve had a long association with. But I really have developed such strong feelings about the importance of Africa, the opportunity in Africa, and such enthusiasm for so many Africans that I’ve gotten to know that that’s really where I’d like to focus for the next few years. Thank you very much. Good night |
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