Interview with World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz in the Amazon Rain Forest

Alter do Chao, Brazil, December 18, 2005

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Mr. Wolfowitz: I suppose one of the overwhelming impressions is just what a warm and hospitable country this is, and how wonderful the people are, and engaging and happy, in the best sense of the word, but also that they are dealing with real problems and that's what ….we are here for.  I've been very impressed with the efficiency of the government officials we've spoken to, very impressed with the high quality of some of the business people we've met and when you see the quality of people you have here it is not a surprise that Brazil is a success story.

Question: You've spent two days here in the Amazon, you've heard from with different stakeholders such as mechanized farmers and rubber tapers about the competing challenges they face everyday to develop this region while conserving the environmental treasures.  Do you have any ideas about how the Bank can help in these efforts?

Mr. Wolfowitz: Ah, some ideas. But I think the central idea is that we can be most helpful by bringing people together in common purposes and trying to bridge what I think are some important differences but I believe there is a much more common ground on the interests and seeing that development here is sustainable and that means that the environment is preserved and sometimes it appears to be the case, and I think as an institution that can bring many resources from outside and an institution that has been deeply engaged here for long time and it has a good reputation for objectivity and I think the Bank can help in that regard, but ultimately it is going to be Brazilians and the Brazilian government that has to take the lead.

Question: There is a lot about conserving the rainforest in the developing world, but some of the perceptions about the size of the challenge are misconceived.  How have your perceptions changed after spending two days here?

Mr. Wolfowitz: It is hard to conceive of just how big this region is no matter how many times people tell you and show you maps, that show that all of Western Europe and Central Europe and Easter Europe could fit in the Amazon, in the Brazilian Amazon, but until you are actually here and you see the size of the region and you see how long it takes to get just little ways up river only then you begin to understand the magnitude.  I think that for policies to be effective they are going to have to address the fact that this is a very big area and  you are not going to be able to micromanage it. There are some huge forces at work that have pushed development and some of that is sustainable development and some of it I think people are rightly concerned about it and I believe that the challenge for the Brazilian government, and that's something that the Bank can help with is how to channel as much energy as possible into sustainable activities.

Question:  Having seen urban poverty in the favelas of Sao Paulo and then rural poor living in the semi-arid areas of the North East and now some of the poor villagers here in the Amazon where do you think the Bank should focus its resources the most?

Mr. Wolfowitz: Well, first of all you have to recognize that our resources are now just a fraction of what is available overall in Brazil and that I think our lending in Brazil is only 10 percent of that of the Brazilian development Bank, so the first thing is to recognize we have to make some choices.  I do think that the places where we bring the most value is in programs that specifically target the poor and in programs that focus on sound management of the environment.  Those are two areas where the Bank has real expertise and where there are big challenges here in Brazil.

Question: How do you see the Bank program in the country evolving from now on?

Mr. Wolfowitz: I think I want to be careful because I am here to learn and actually looking forward to some recommendations from John Briscoe who has taken over very well and from Pamela Cox who is a terrific Vice President.  I think it is fair to say that what I am hearing from them is a feeling that we need to set our strategic priorities a little more clearly precisely of what I said. The country is too big and we can't afford to do everything so we need to figure out how to can make a real difference.

Question:  What was your favorite moment so far?

Mr. Wolfowitz: Favorite moment so far, well there were so many. I think in some ways it was going through those demonstrations we had about what various small communities were doing to make local products and you getting this feeling, it is very inspiring when you get the feeling of the pride the poor people have that they've been able to improve their lives.  It is inspiring. Well they were doing things like taking local products, in one case it was like taking things like cashew nuts and marketing it for export from small local village. Of course we saw another example of that in the Amazon where they are doing this thing called natural leather. I am not quite sure why they don't call it just plain rubber but at any rate it was a fascinating thing to watch it and you could feel in the people that were doing it a sense of pride and satisfaction.  It goes beyond the fact that their lives are better, and their lives are better, but also I think they feel they have more control of their lives and their future.